Pretty silly that it even needs to be investigated :/ But that's the silly game they play I guess.
I don't see the need to delve into jewish law or worry about how the jews define jewry. The jews are a racial group. People born with jewish DNA are jews. No one can become a jew or stop being a jew any more than a Pygmy can decide to become Chinese.
Well I was wondering, John, if you don't actually accept their definition of Jew as well. "People born w/ Jewish DNA are Jews." You are taking them at their own word. And that definition is an example of determinism: biology determines identity.
Then there's the example of how a pygmy can't decide to become a Chinese. I think you're saying people of one race can't realistically change racial status by identifying w/ a different race. Fair enough.
But I don't think of Jews as a race exclusively. I think of them as a tribe, a mega tribe, a self-identified society which is a mix of religion, race and mindset. Blacks and Yellows can be Jews (w/ sufficient ancestry). They are in fact a multi-racial group. To be sure non-whites are socially looked down on, but the religion accepts them w/ some kind of beta status. So I have to conclude it's ultimately not biology, at least not purely race, that identifies them. I would also maintain that w/o the religion, the tribe would soon dissolve.
As to mindset. I mean a certain ethnocentric intention - doing what's good for the Jews, no ecumenism or universalist bs proselytizing. And if you become a sincere Christian or Muslim, you're no longer a Jew. You're excommunicated.
If we redefine "jew" to mean some kind amorphous civic identity or religious affiliation then we need a new word to describe the jewish racial group.
Given that such a word already exists I see no reason to accept the redefinition. Especially since the redefinition is only done out of a sense of convenience. In practice jewish converts are only accepted insofar as they marry into the group and express loyalty to it, it tie themselves to it racially. Their children will be half jewish and their grandchildren will be majority jewish. After another two generations any foreign genetic signal will be indistinguishable.
Tribes are traditionally sub groups of races. That is true. That's why I say Jews are a mega tribe. The members think tribally as insular groups do, but they could be of any race or ethnicity.
Incidentally, I see you like to decapitalize Jews. Karl also does this. Aren't Jews a specific tribe (or race, if you will)? Either way, shouldn't they be capitalized?
Tribes are racial groups plus political allegience. There is no traditional standard for the scope of the word "race." It can refer to any group with common ancestry.
jews cannoy be "of any race or ethnicity." They reject ethiopian jews for example.
Pretty silly that it even needs to be investigated :/ But that's the silly game they play I guess.
I don't see the need to delve into jewish law or worry about how the jews define jewry. The jews are a racial group. People born with jewish DNA are jews. No one can become a jew or stop being a jew any more than a Pygmy can decide to become Chinese.
I do it because it gets rid of their argument and thus prevents them claiming otherwise. :)
I'm not complaining. You're doing great work :)
I think it's a mistake to accept their definitions too deeply though. They love nothing more than to reduce everything to pilpul.
Well I was wondering, John, if you don't actually accept their definition of Jew as well. "People born w/ Jewish DNA are Jews." You are taking them at their own word. And that definition is an example of determinism: biology determines identity.
Then there's the example of how a pygmy can't decide to become a Chinese. I think you're saying people of one race can't realistically change racial status by identifying w/ a different race. Fair enough.
But I don't think of Jews as a race exclusively. I think of them as a tribe, a mega tribe, a self-identified society which is a mix of religion, race and mindset. Blacks and Yellows can be Jews (w/ sufficient ancestry). They are in fact a multi-racial group. To be sure non-whites are socially looked down on, but the religion accepts them w/ some kind of beta status. So I have to conclude it's ultimately not biology, at least not purely race, that identifies them. I would also maintain that w/o the religion, the tribe would soon dissolve.
As to mindset. I mean a certain ethnocentric intention - doing what's good for the Jews, no ecumenism or universalist bs proselytizing. And if you become a sincere Christian or Muslim, you're no longer a Jew. You're excommunicated.
Tribes are racial groups.
If we redefine "jew" to mean some kind amorphous civic identity or religious affiliation then we need a new word to describe the jewish racial group.
Given that such a word already exists I see no reason to accept the redefinition. Especially since the redefinition is only done out of a sense of convenience. In practice jewish converts are only accepted insofar as they marry into the group and express loyalty to it, it tie themselves to it racially. Their children will be half jewish and their grandchildren will be majority jewish. After another two generations any foreign genetic signal will be indistinguishable.
Tribes are traditionally sub groups of races. That is true. That's why I say Jews are a mega tribe. The members think tribally as insular groups do, but they could be of any race or ethnicity.
Incidentally, I see you like to decapitalize Jews. Karl also does this. Aren't Jews a specific tribe (or race, if you will)? Either way, shouldn't they be capitalized?
I decapitalise out of principle with jews.
Tribes are racial groups plus political allegience. There is no traditional standard for the scope of the word "race." It can refer to any group with common ancestry.
jews cannoy be "of any race or ethnicity." They reject ethiopian jews for example.
They decapitalise Whites so I decapitalise them.